One Country Project's Hot Dish

Joel Heitkamp [00:00:04]:
You know, welcome to this special edition of the Hot Dish. I'm Joel Highcamp.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:00:08]:
And I'm Heidi Heikemp.

Joel Heitkamp [00:00:09]:
Today we're going to talk about last night's presidential debate. With us today to join us in this conversation is former congressman, senator, ambassador. In other words, he's a little bit of everything. Joe Donnelly, thanks for being with us today. Ambassador, how you been?

Joe Donnelly [00:00:25]:
Thank you.

Joel Heitkamp [00:00:26]:
Good. How about you?

Heidi Heitkamp [00:00:27]:
He can't keep a job.

Joe Donnelly [00:00:28]:
That's exactly right. That's what I tell people. It's wonderful to be back home.

Joel Heitkamp [00:00:33]:
Or he's so good at it, they keep promoting him. How's that?

Heidi Heitkamp [00:00:39]:
He's not going to give you a job or pay you any money, so you don't need that.

Joel Heitkamp [00:00:43]:
You know, to be honest with you, working at the Vatican, I never really thought I had a shot. I'm not going to lie to you.

Joe Donnelly [00:00:50]:
Well, on my last, on my next to last day, I asked the number two at the Vatican, they said, I've been here two and a half years. Like, when my final time comes, is this going to count to help me move along into the upper regions? And he looked at me very seriously and goes, no, no, I don't think so. I was like, well, that was a waste of two and a half years.

Joel Heitkamp [00:01:18]:
Well, Heidi, I know you got some things to say about the debate last night.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:01:21]:
Well, I mean, I think the Republicans are shocked. They're shocked because guess who showed up last night? Donald Trump. I mean, people are like, oh, could you? People who are analyzing how I behave, that's exactly who he is. I mean, they're mad because their guy showed up and he was who he was and he did not look happy to be there. And I, you know me, Joel, I always think that you turn off the sound and watch the expressions, and joyful always wins over crabby. And that guy was one crabby guy last night. And that he said really absurd things like, you know, people eating cats and dogs, and he went off on a tirade about crowd sizes, and he took every, every bit of chum she threw in the water. He gobbled up.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:02:07]:
And, you know, I think, I think it's just who he is because, you know, in debate prep, they just told him, don't do it. Don't do it.

Joel Heitkamp [00:02:15]:
Ambassador, I'm going to take you up on your offer to call you Joe. Okay. We've all known each other.

Joe Donnelly [00:02:21]:
I'd love that.

Joel Heitkamp [00:02:22]:
So, Joe, when you watched, what did you think?

Joe Donnelly [00:02:26]:
I thought that the rest of the country could finally see the Donald Trump that Heidi and I have known for years just what Heidi was saying, that this is the guy we dealt with in meetings. This is the guy we dealt with on a regular basis in the legislature. And so what was so incredible was the plan. Kamala had to bring it out. And truly, what you just said, like, if she was going fishing, she filled up the boat. It was a reflection. That's who Donald Trump is. And, like, the things he said actually did not surprise me because we've seen them before.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:03:10]:
She definitely caught her limit.

Joel Heitkamp [00:03:14]:
I would argue that if the game wardens stopped by, she was over limit. That's a whole other issue. Both you guys know, I refereed college and high school football for a lot of years. And in high school football in North Dakota, we have a thing called the mercy rule, where if a team gets ahead by 35 points in the second half, that's it. We're done playing ball. And I kept thinking, vice president Harris, that's enough. I mean, quit pilot on. They're going to start feeling sorry for the guy.

Joel Heitkamp [00:03:44]:
But it was that bad, Joel. I mean, it really was that bad.

Joe Donnelly [00:03:47]:
And what was amazing, too, was we've been watching this performance for nine years now. And so the first thing he does, he knows he didn't do very well, I think. And he runs out into the spin room and starts talking about all these polls he has that shows he had 90% was for him and 10% for Harris. And it's like, you know, it never ends. It reminds me of the early days of our country, the folks who were the guy who was selling the fake medicine all across the west, it was always the same kind of thing. Whatever you heard is different the next hour or the next day. And when they talked about Vice President Harris saying that her position had changed a little bit on this one issue, I thought about how his positions have changed on every issue. He talks about love for the police, and then in the debate, he talks about the January 6 insurrectionist that he was a part of getting this whole thing going.

Joe Donnelly [00:04:56]:
And we saw a policeman who died the next few days because of the attacks. And it's like, who are you? Are you the guy who says he loves police or the guy who helps incite an attack against the police? And so this is. This is just who he is. It's chaos.

Joel Heitkamp [00:05:12]:
Heidi, you've been all over national media. I mean, they've been calling on you for. For your opinion big time. What are you hearing from some of the. Some of the people you're on with?

Heidi Heitkamp [00:05:23]:
You know, I. They basically have pivoted because we were all really honest when Joe Biden turned in a bad performance, at least I was. I mean, you know, we just kind of said, this is bad, and we need to rethink this. Their reaction is, yeah, it was bad, but who cares? It's not gonna change numbers. It's not gonna, you know, have any impact. And so they immediately, the smart ones that I've been on, Republicans immediately pivoted to the so what? Because they didn't want to defend what got said. They didn't want to defend the performance. They knew that he had lost.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:06:00]:
And then immediately it's the so what? And, and that's a legitimate question, and I would be interested. Joel, you were on the radio this morning. What was, what was the people's response? You know, just people calling you.

Joel Heitkamp [00:06:15]:
We played a lot of sound cuts, and that wasn't hard to do because he gave us a lot of sound cuts and he gave she, you know, Kamala gave us a lot of sound cuts as well. But, I mean, here was their reaction. I had some people call in that were going to vote for Donald Trump that said we're not. I had some people that called in that said, I really had doubts of whether or not she's up to this. I'm not doubting that anymore. I had people call in and say, look, this was three on one. ABC piled on that. It shouldn't have been that way.

Joel Heitkamp [00:06:46]:
Then I was ready with the sound of, hey, you lied. They're not eating dogs in Springfield, Ohio. You know they're not. And it was abs job, ABC's job, to call bullshit on that. And so, you know, it went that way. You know, I was broadcasting from a farm show, and I ended up with people outside my studio window just taking it in. I mean, Joe, these people are starting to get it. I'm not saying it's going to move the numbers.

Joel Heitkamp [00:07:17]:
I'm just saying they know what's going on.

Joe Donnelly [00:07:20]:
Yeah, I was just going to follow up to what you were saying, joel, by saying people know who he is now. They know. They've seen this act for so long, and there's been so many excuses for it, but they know. They know who he is, what he stands for, and are just besides themselves that this is the Republicans choice for president.

Joel Heitkamp [00:07:49]:
Well, a question for you, Heidi. Last time you mentioned Joe Biden, and I called for Biden to get out of the race after the last performance. I called for both of them. I said 80 year old men shouldn't be running this country had about 20 calls into the show from 80 year old men who agreed with, you know, but, you know, I, we were honest about Joe Biden. I mean, we were. But the way he acted last night, you know, you guys know him. But I think it was at a whole different level. I think that he looked old, he sounded older, he sounded confused.

Joel Heitkamp [00:08:30]:
I mean, I'm not saying that he was as bad as Biden was, but he sure wasn't too far behind. Heidi.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:08:35]:
Yeah, it was interesting because she's never met him. And Joe and I have spent a lot of time, when we were in the Senate, we spent a lot of time with him. And he was usually on kind of a charm offensive until he knew he couldn't move us and then he was done with us. You're dismissed. Get out.

Joe Donnelly [00:08:50]:
Then he threw us in the wood chipper.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:08:54]:
But he knew how to be charming. He knew how to and sit across the desk and make small talk and, you know, and, and I just think, just like, I think Biden came on the stage, didn't feel well, was not, you know, I mean, was cloudy and fuzzy about what he thought. Donald Trump came to that stage last night angry. He was told, there's going to be a split screen. Do not overreact to what she says. So the beginning, he was pretty contained until she kept turning the knife and he took the bait. And the more that happened, the more he kind of lost the attention and the ability to present a presidential kind of visual. But I want to defend ABC, and for full disclosure, I have a contract with ABC.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:09:49]:
I know these folks really well. They're really good journalists. They are not biased. But I think that they made a decision that things were going to get said that were not correct. They let a lot of stuff go by. Let's just point that out. And then only hit the most egregious kinds of misstatements. But my point is, every fact checker out there, including the ones for Fox, have fact checked the former president and said there just isn't even a comparison between the fibbing and the prevarication.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:10:22]:
That's a nice way of saying lying between Trump and Harris. I mean, Harris may have been vague, but she was purposeful in her vagueness and didn't get herself in trouble on fact checking.

Joe Donnelly [00:10:36]:
I actually thought during the debate, it showed that he talked for about five minutes more than the vice president did. And I thought that ABC actually gave him, like, opportunities that were not supposed to be part of it, where he just kind of broke in and said, I got to talk about this, and they let him. And so I thought it was done in an extraordinarily fair way by ABC. I thought actually they were very serious, very focused. They did a good job. But to your point, Joel, the thought that kept striking me, watching that last night, Washington, boy, he looks old and tired. And yesterday, it was like someone who has a record player with a 45, and it just keeps playing the song over and over and over, and everybody's looking going, I'm done with this now. I can't do this anymore.

Joel Heitkamp [00:11:41]:
Yeah, he's always shot about 105 when he says he golfs around an 80 something. And I'd be willing to bet now he's golfing about a 120. I mean, he's looking old. But, guys, I've been making this argument to Heidi, and I'm really curious what you think about it, Joe, that he gauges everything by crowd size, because of the apprentice, because of ratings, and he didn't like getting fired. And when she told him he got fired last night, it hit him. He knows what Barack Obama did to him at that convention, and he knows the jokes that followed it. And so when she brought that up, his crowd, the fact that the crowds leave, they get bored. I don't think you could have planned for or done anything, Joe, that would hurt him more than what that did.

Joe Donnelly [00:12:33]:
That's his whole ego wrapped up in one, in one bow, is, I'm always the best. I'm always the biggest. I'm always the loudest. I'm always the most visible. And she, in such a smart way, said, you know, you're so boring. People just walked out. It's like, that's as bad as it gets, that you were putting people to sleep. And then I did laugh one time, Heidi, I actually didn't laugh.

Joe Donnelly [00:13:04]:
My wife laughed when he said, they told me if I got 73 million, I won. And Jill looked at me and she said, they told you if you got 1.1 million, you were going to win?

Heidi Heitkamp [00:13:17]:
Oh, yeah. No, I mean, you know, we, Claire and you and I all got our vote to reelect number. We hit our numbers and exceeded our number.

Joe Donnelly [00:13:25]:
We all get our numbers.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:13:25]:
Guess what? We didn't win, and we're not telling people that we did.

Joe Donnelly [00:13:29]:
Right.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:13:31]:
The important thing, I think, for her is she now needs to capitalize on this. She needs to do some more interviews. She needs to be and not have Tim walls with her. I love Tim, but, you know, she needs to now occupy the media space, and, you know, she will not win this by playing defense. And she played offense really well last night. She's got to keep that up.

Joe Donnelly [00:13:59]:
This is a hard battle to the end that's going to be very close. And I think, you know what I've always thought about the swing states and how important they are. But Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania have always been in a different section for me in that if you win those, you win. And if we can get some of the others, that is extraordinarily phenomenal. But if you don't get the core, you're probably not going to wind up winning. And I think in Wisconsin and Michigan, we've gotten to be in a little bit better shape. And I think this may be coming down to Pennsylvania. And that's why they were talking about 800,000 people of polish descent in Pennsylvania last night.

Joe Donnelly [00:14:48]:
That's why they were talking fracking so much. And why there was such a, such a tussle back and forth is because they know how that goes is probably going to determine who's in the office.

Joel Heitkamp [00:14:59]:
I'm curious what you both as people who served with her and who know her much better than, than what our listening audience does. And so I'm curious about this. Everybody thought last night that they were afraid she would be intimidated by Donald Trump. Clearly she wasn't.

Joe Donnelly [00:15:16]:
Okay, that was my last thought.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:15:20]:
That never has been anything.

Joel Heitkamp [00:15:21]:
No, no, no. I'm talking about you, you folks that know her. But I'm talking about the general public. I think that the general public going into that debate thought she's got to be tough enough to take him on.

Joe Donnelly [00:15:33]:
And, and I think he tried to intimidate her, too, and it didn't work.

Joel Heitkamp [00:15:38]:
And, and I think it started, it all started with the, the kind of, you know what, when he, she walked over and introduced herself and actually said her name, way you pronounce it, you know, I, I think he was on his heels right away, you guys.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:15:55]:
Well, can I make this point? I've known Kamala longer than Joe has because she was an attorney general in California. And so I knew her back when she was a state official. She literally has been in courtrooms with Cartel. She's been in courtrooms with people, with mobsters and organized crime, and she's been with some of the worst, you know, kind of characters who will look at you, try and intimidate you, try and get you to back off as a prosecutor. She's not going to be afraid of, of an 80 year old guy. She was never going to be intimidated by Donald Trump.

Joe Donnelly [00:16:30]:
Speaker one.

Joel Heitkamp [00:16:30]:
Okay, then let me ask you this, Joe, because I agree with both of you. We learned that last night. But the poll numbers did not move even when Joe Biden had a very, very bad performance. You didn't see the poll numbers move that much in the Biden heads up against head to head with Trump. And so we didn't see that convention balance the way people thought how great the democratic convention was. Well, this matter, Joe.

Joe Donnelly [00:17:02]:
I think the reset came before the convention, and so it's close a couple of points either way, Joel. I think it stays that way. And I think that's why the knocking on the doors, the phone calls, the organization, the data analytics, all of that is so absolutely critical because it could come down to one county. And that's why he is sowing the seeds, has been sowing the seeds for four years now, trying to gain an edge. When this starts, you're going to see almost unlimited efforts to try and denigrate the vote, discredit the vote, all of those things. I think we're in for a rough ride.

Joel Heitkamp [00:17:46]:
I got another question for both of you. I'm going to put you in a position where you now are Kamala Harris's campaign manager. You said Heidi earlier, don't do everything with Tim walls. Get out there, speak to the public. If you could tell her, Heidi, one thing, just one thing, to win this race, what would it be?

Heidi Heitkamp [00:18:08]:
I think that it would be stay focused on the issues that swing voters. By that, I mean suburban women and women who care about choice, stay on those, but, but also understand that they care about economic issues. Hone heard economic arguments much more carefully, and I would say just, just continue to do what you're doing in terms of looking like you're having fun and looking youthful and so, but you can't do that by doing set events. I mean, call the talk radio in Pennsylvania. Call talk radio. Let people ask you a question about fracking. How did you change your mind? What caused you to change your mind? She proved last night that she can take all incoming and so just go do it. And I think that the media hype about.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:19:02]:
Oh, she does. She's all programmed and doesn't want to take all this. She could dispel that in a week by doing a lot of unscheduled, unplanned kinds of media events. But I tell you, here at one country, we believe the world vote matters. That's why we do the work that we do. We think that the Democratic Party needs to do better in rural America. She could be out there not just relying on Tim Wells, but out there speaking to rural voters, especially if you had her here. Yeah.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:19:30]:
Can I just make this point?

Joel Heitkamp [00:19:32]:
Well, that was more than one thing, Heidi. I just want to point out, I'm the moderator of the debate.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:19:36]:
Ok. But I want to, I want to ask Joe, because Joe had a demographic that was a little different than ours with a lot of small manufacturers, supply chain manufacturers, you know. You know, even though agriculture is huge in Indiana, rural America includes a lot of union workers in Indiana. Joel, how does she get the union workers that you were so successful with? How does she get them to take.

Joe Donnelly [00:20:07]:
A second look by showing up at all of their events, you know, in the swing states and talking to them about how pro union she and the president have been, that they worked to protect the pensions, that they worked to make sure that with the legislation that was passed, there's an incredible amount of work for everybody. Heidi, all the union workers are working right now. The pensions are protected. The salaries are tremendous. They're in probably the best shape they've been in their lives. And so they just, look, if there's a steelworkers meeting in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, Tim Walz ought to be there. If there's an ironworkers meeting in Pittsburgh, Kamala needs to be there. I'll never, ever forget, one of the greatest lessons was that Secretary Clinton was never in Wisconsin and lost by 10,000 votes that year.

Joe Donnelly [00:21:11]:
And I thought, you know, you really have to stick to your knitting. And if you have a spare moment, great. But until you do, you've got to be where you're meeting the voters who are going to make the decision, and those union workers. She can be at foreign progress shows just like you talked about, walking around answering questions from people. And she can answer any question from anybody. And so what I think is just what you were saying, Joel. She needs to talk about jobs, education. She needs to talk about women's issues.

Joe Donnelly [00:21:46]:
She's going to have to talk about the border and talk about how Trump killed the bill and that border crossings are at their lowest now than they've been in an incredibly long amount of time, that they care about the border, that, you know, what I always used to say is, I said, look, I am a compassionate person, but there are laws in place from the United States and the laws are to be obeyed. That's not complicated.

Joel Heitkamp [00:22:13]:
So I'm at that farm show, you two today, and there was a gentleman, and I'm guessing he's over 70, like a typical farmer now in one country country.

Joe Donnelly [00:22:24]:
He's also probably rich at this point.

Joel Heitkamp [00:22:26]:
Too. He's not doing badlandhouse, but he's walking around with a Harris walls t shirt.

Joe Donnelly [00:22:32]:
Wow.

Joel Heitkamp [00:22:33]:
And. And, guys, they would have done that a couple of years ago. You just didn't do that.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:22:39]:
Yeah. Even if they supported the democratic ticket, they were not telling their neighbors they did.

Joel Heitkamp [00:22:45]:
Exactly.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:22:46]:
And this is the one thing that people. And we've been talking a lot about that this on the podcast, because a lot of our listeners, they aren't. They aren't driving the county roads, Joel and Joe. They aren't out there looking, and they don't have the comparison. Right. So I knew Hillary was in trouble. When I saw what was happening in western Minnesota and western. And western Pennsylvania, I knew she was in trouble.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:23:13]:
Places where you would never have seen a republican sign were flying the flags then in 20, same kind of like, in fact, we had pop up merch stores in small rural communities selling Trump merch. Joel, have you seen one of those? Have you seen a lot of. No. I mean. And I'm sure you aren't seeing it in rural Indiana the same way.

Joel Heitkamp [00:23:34]:
Yeah. And you're not seeing the signs over in lake country. You know, we've got an area, Joe, over here that's kind of the high end. You know, that they all go from North Dakota to Minnesota and have pretty high end lake homes.

Joe Donnelly [00:23:46]:
Yeah, there's.

Joel Heitkamp [00:23:47]:
There's no signs. I took my harley and wrote it over there. Just poked around to see nothing. I've got a really weird question for both of you, too, though, by the way.

Joe Donnelly [00:23:56]:
Just. Just. I think they want some peace, and they want some stability. They're insanity. They're worn out.

Joel Heitkamp [00:24:02]:
They're worn out. I'm curious what you two think, because my producer is 27 years old. She is of a whole different generation than I am. She was so excited about Taylor Swift supporting the Kamala Harris, and she pulled up the data for me. How many shares? What's happening? I'm gonna throw it to you first, Joe. I mean, how big of a deal is that endorsement?

Joe Donnelly [00:24:29]:
I think it's a monstrous deal. I know my niece. My niece, when she got tickets to the concert, broke down in tears, and I was thinking. All I was thinking was, I'm probably gonna have to drive her. You know, I was rooting against the tickets for that reason. But, I mean, this is a big part of who they are, and this is someone who they relate to, who they look up to, and it's a big deal.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:25:03]:
Heidi, you know, I was with a young woman last night. I did ABC radio, and she works there. And she came running at me to let me know that. Cause she had gotten the tweet first that Taylor, or the Instagram first that Taylor Swift had endorsed or had said she's gonna vote for Kamala Harris and encouraged her people to register. And she started telling me, I mean, she said she was an african, young african american woman. She said, I am a swifty. I can't tell you how big this is, how big this is. And the thing is that enthusiasm, if she gets it registered, and then from that registration, you get people voting, that's probably a 70% to 75% voting block for Kamala.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:25:51]:
And if they show up in those swing states, assume she's got a. I. The young woman told me it's like something like multimillion dollar followers, million followers.

Joe Donnelly [00:26:05]:
Millions and millions and millions.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:26:07]:
Almost 40 million. I mean, it was like a huge number. And you think if you just motivate 10% of them in those swing states to show up and vote, and they vote the way young people are voting now, just take the demographics and understand it. This is. This could swing the election.

Joe Donnelly [00:26:25]:
And I think she has to continue to stay on this. This can't be just a one tweak deal. But I think what you'll see is just what you're talking about, Heidi. The biggest difference, I think, might be people who probably weren't going to vote, but now will.

Joel Heitkamp [00:26:43]:
Yep, that's a great point. And that's what Abby said. That's what my producer said. She goes, there was a lot of people, she said, especially when it was Biden against Trump, that just simply weren't going to vote. They weren't excited. They felt left out. And she said, now there are going to be a lot of people that register to vote and vote. You got that look, hide.

Joel Heitkamp [00:27:05]:
They can't see it on the radio.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:27:06]:
But I just have to laugh because Trump's reaction was, well, I have misses Mahomes. Number one. They probably didn't even know her first name, Brittany. And I'm like, hunter, you might not have her husband either.

Joe Donnelly [00:27:20]:
He's got Tommy Dorsey in the big jazz band.

Joel Heitkamp [00:27:23]:
Hey, you guys, I've got one for you. So at this farm show, Lee Greenwood is performing. And I came home from the democratic convention. I said, well, if you want to see the difference between the two, we had pink, we had the chicks, and they had Lee Greenwood. And so my. My FM crew at the radio station, Joe, got a poster sign from Lee Greenwood, and they put it on my desk with a note that said, we know you're a big fan.

Joe Donnelly [00:27:55]:
I thought you were going to tell me it said something else on there from where you.

Joel Heitkamp [00:28:01]:
I know we're running out of time. I just have to ask you this, and you're not going to like it. Who wins this thing, Heidi, if you ran it today, who wins?

Heidi Heitkamp [00:28:10]:
Um. If you run it today, I think she wins. But I am. But this is going to be razor thin. And my big concern and, you know, been doing a lot of work on election security, trying to prepare for what could happen if Trump decides he's going to stir the pot again. You know, think of 15, 1600 people in jail because he told them the big lie that he had had one and that it was their job as patriots to defend him. He admits it was not sarcastic. He admits he lost.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:28:40]:
He will not. And now, now that he's been called out on that, he will not go quietly into the night. And so I think she wins. But I think we have to be prepared to protect democracy against another attempt to steal an election speaker one.

Joe Donnelly [00:28:56]:
Joe, I think it comes down to Pennsylvania. If it was today, I think she wins by maybe a point or two. But what Heidi was saying, if somebody tells you who they are, believe them, and he intends, he would rather shut down the government, have the capital go up, than give this up, because remember, he's also facing criminal charges.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:29:27]:
I was saying the stakes are even higher, Joe.

Joe Donnelly [00:29:29]:
The stakes are even higher. And this is not going to be an easy road we have ahead, but we all have to stay strong.

Joel Heitkamp [00:29:36]:
Yeah. And, and I will tell you this from my perspective as a radio talk show host, I'm not going to lie. I want her to win. I'm going to vote for Kamala. But as a talk show host, losing Donald Trump in the public eye, my ratings are going down. You guys. You know, I want to thank you so much for joining us today, Joe. We appreciate your thoughts, and we're going to do this more with you whether you like it or not.

Joel Heitkamp [00:30:01]:
We got your cell phone. And I want to thank all those listeners out there for their support and their interest. Get out and vote. Talk to your friends. Knock on doors, make phone calls. This is going to be a little bit of everything. And, you know, I want you to learn about what we're doing at one country by going to onecountryproject.com. thank you, too.

Joel Heitkamp [00:30:21]:
I got to see this one. Heidi, next time you. Okay.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:30:24]:
Okay.

Joel Heitkamp [00:30:26]:
All right. Thanks, you guys. Thanks for listening on one country.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:30:40]:
Last topic of.