One Country Project's Hot Dish

Heidi Heitkamp (00:04):
Welcome to the Hot Dish Comfort Food for Middle America. I'm Heidi Heitkamp.

Joel Heitkamp (00:09):
And I'm Joel Heitkamp.

Heidi Heitkamp (00:11):
This is a very exciting episode. I'll be speaking with Democratic political strategist, Simon Rosenberg. Simon and I have known each other for a long time. Simon is going to be sharing his insights and commentary on the recent election news involving Biden, Harris and former president, Trump. Stay tuned for an enlightening conversation about the future of politics and practical solutions for rural America. But first, we have a special update for you from the Crossroads America guys, Lucas and Ezekiel. They're talking about their latest adventures, gathering incredible stories from the people they meet as they travel across America. Guys, over to you.

Ezekiel Wells (00:58):
Hey, I'm Ezekiel Wells.

Lucas Kult-Banout (00:59):
I'm Lucas Kult-Banout.

Ezekiel Wells (01:01):
And this is Crossroads America. We're a project that is going to all 50 states in America and telling some of the stories that often don't get highlighted in trying to really understand different people across our country no matter how different we may seem.

Lucas Kult-Banout (01:23):
We've been on the road for about five weeks now, hoping to hit all 50 states by the end of the summer and we're on track to do so. Right now, it's 90 degrees maybe in New Orleans, and our fans are broken in this van for some reason, so we're really hot and sweaty.

Ezekiel Wells (01:40):
Yeah. I mean, I'm just happy that we have this thing to bring us around.

Lucas Kult-Banout (01:46):
At the end of the day, it's just gratitude to do what we do, I think. This is a vehicle to be able to pursue the mission and there's some sacrifices, but I'll take it any day. We made an episode in Chicago, Detroit, Nashville, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York City, Maine, Virginia, Georgia, and Florida, and we've been passing through all the other states along that route. So we have 10 episodes so far. We're currently editing our episode from Puerto Rico.

Ezekiel Wells (02:24):
We're really excited about that episode. It should probably be one of our best ones yet, and learning about some of the stories, I'm going to be honest, I cried after one of the interviews just a little bit. It's been really moving to learn from other people.

Lucas Kult-Banout (02:39):
One of the most impactful moments for, I think both of us was in an interview that we were doing in Puerto Rico. There's a Cuban man who had moved to Puerto Rico when he was pretty young, had struggled a lot with going hungry when he was young and when he was doing this interview with us, he started crying and just thinking about the memories and the things he had been through.

(03:02):
What was really inspiring was that he's now a leader in his community. He's someone who steps up when people need help no matter who they are. If they're from the Dominican Republic or Cuba or Puerto Rico, it doesn't matter. He knows what it's like to struggle and he's there for his community when they need it. And that was something we observed across many of the interviews we did there, but he was a really striking example of that. So I'm excited to share that with people.

(03:26):
I think our audience is excited to hear it. People really, really like learning about other stories and other experiences even when they don't necessarily agree with them. We have comments that say good stuff. I don't agree with everything everyone said, but I appreciate the work you all do. So that feels good. I think that that means the mission is working.

Ezekiel Wells (03:47):
I think what I'm the most happy to have built with the way we're approaching this is that established neutrality. Even though everyone we talk to knows... I mean, as soon as they hear that, for example, I'm vegan and Lucas is vegetarian and that we're from Chicago, they know we're liberal. They know all of that, but there's a sense of mutual respect in all of the conversations we have, and a sense of we're here as YouTuber slash journalist slash someone who's trying to understand them better and tell a story and that they can be open with us, and then that our audience, which is a small but hopefully growing number, that those people are receptive and that they are willing to hear things out on both sides of the aisle.

(04:42):
I think from what I've noticed, there's a lot of people who are unhappy with the status quo, unhappy with the divisiveness and looking for something different. A lot of times when we talk to people, they're like, "We need more unity. We need more common ground solutions and we need all of those types of things." But then when we ask them what in detail does that mean? It really means most of the time when we're talking to people, a lot of the times it's people saying, "Okay, I just wish other people would believe what I believe."

(05:18):
So I think what I'm learning is that we as a nation have this desire and I really think that we have the strength to push through this divisive time. I think we can arrive at a much more productive space, and that applies for our personal lives, the political sphere and the media as a whole. There's a lot of work to be done.

(05:39):
I've learned that, but I've also learned that I really like this country and that there's a lot of hope in how we're moving forward. To follow along our journey, you can check out our YouTube channel, Crossroads America, that is Crossroads, plural, and America. And if you want to learn more about our project and our website, you can check out crossroadsamerica.org. We'll also be sharing periodic updates on the One Country Project podcast right here throughout the summer.

Joel Heitkamp (06:15):
Before we wrap up, I had a chance to visit with JD Scholten, a One Country Project board member, an Iowa State representative. JD recently had a very successful stint pitching for the Sioux City Explorers, and we thought all of you'd like to hear about it. JD, 44 years old, 2 and 0 on a year. Man, you shut them down today.

JD Scholten (06:38):
I mean, that's a good hitting team. Fargo is. And so just to go out there, they made me grind every single at bat, and so I'm pretty exhausted. I don't know how I'm going to drive home and maybe I might stay in Fargo an extra night and just have a couple beers. We'll see.

Joel Heitkamp (06:54):
I think the way you pitch today, maybe you stay in Fargo, they're going to pick you up as a Red Hawk. What do you think of that?

JD Scholten (07:00):
Being raised in Sioux City, literally representing Sioux City at the capitol in Iowa, and now just having Sioux City across my chest on this uniform. It's so special to me of what's happening right now. This has been one of the greatest weeks of my life.

Joel Heitkamp (07:13):
Ladies and gentlemen, a state representative, a man that we can talk like we do on my show about issues all the time, but understand this in a very red district almost found himself in the United States Congress. I mean, are you sure you even wanted to do that when you could pitch like this?

JD Scholten (07:29):
Well, I didn't know I could do this. I went seven years without playing baseball, and it was actually during COVID that my 2020 campaign, COVID hit and I went down a rabbit hole one Saturday night and I... pitching mechanics on YouTube. And I was like, "Man, if I did this, if I would've done this." and finally I was like, "You know what? I'm just going to buy a couple dozen balls and start throwing again. I mean, yada, yada, yada. We're right here."

Joel Heitkamp (07:55):
I have to tell you, "Watching you from up in the press box, take in most of the game up there," you don't waste pitches. I mean the pitch count, everything. You had a lot of first pitch outs.

JD Scholten (08:06):
I would definitely call myself an old school pitcher in a many, many different ways. It's funny because all the guys are spin rates and velo and stuff like that. I didn't look to check my velocity once. I don't care. I want to make sure that I get out. And if they hit a laser off me, but right at somebody, that's part of baseball. And so as long as I can get ahead, change locations, change speeds, that's pitching to me.

Joel Heitkamp (08:29):
Yeah. I can tell you this. Watching, you couldn't predict what you were going to throw. And I think that's a big part of it as well. I mean, you found yourself sometimes in the hole, on the pitch count and you're sitting there and you may be down at 3-0, and you said, "I'm still throwing this."

JD Scholten (08:46):
Well, I got to give credit to my catcher who's a North Dakota state grad, and so he's caught me both times and has just done an amazing job. So I'm only as my defense around me is, and so the boys got a couple runs and just like, "This is just magical." I don't know how else to describe it.

Joel Heitkamp (09:03):
You've been sitting in a suit and tie in a chair in the state house making a difference in people's lives, making laws, helping constituents. Now, you're sitting out here getting a win at Newman Outdoor. You're 2 and 0. Which one is more fun?

JD Scholten (09:18):
No comment. Well, fun? Which one is fun? Baseball. A hundred percent baseball. Which one do I would rather do? No comment. No, it's an honor to represent Sioux City in the capitol, but this is just something different. This is in my blood. I never dreamt of being a politician, but every night, even when I wasn't playing baseball, I dreamt about baseball and just playing. When I drive home tonight to go back to Sioux City, I'm not going to join the team. I'll have a ball in my hand almost the entire way. I got to give credit of my dad. He was a college baseball coach.

(09:50):
We played. Actually, the first time I played here was in the 2000 NCC tournament and I pitched in sleep. I had to go up to the clubhouse in between innings because it was so dry and cold.

Joel Heitkamp (10:02):
I can tell you this, you're affecting people's lives. There's some little guys over here who want to be politicians, want to be baseball players and want to meet too. I'll let you go, man, but thanks for making it fun.

JD Scholten (10:12):
It's great to see you. Thanks for having me.

Joel Heitkamp (10:13):
Take care.

Heidi Heitkamp (10:19):
I am so thrilled today to be speaking with Democratic political strategist and blogger, Simon Rosenberg. Simon is the founder of a new venture called Hopium Chronicles. I hope he will explain where that all comes from and what he hopes to do with it. But we're going to be talking a little politics, talking a little bit about what happens with centrist Democrats and what that means for rural America. But first, tell me about your new venture, Simon.

Simon Rosenberg (10:52):
Yeah. I had run an organization called NDN for 27 years and for a variety of reasons last year I made a decision to move my work to a platform called Substack which is a very writer friendly program, and we're now up to about a hundred thousand subscribers and followers, and our community is focused on better understanding politics from somebody who's been in the game a long time.

(11:19):
We also do a lot of volunteer work and they're making phone calls, writing postcards, texting people, canvassing, being information warriors for our democracy. There's been a citizen uprising in America against extremist politics, and it's been heartening to see. As somebody who's been in this business for a long time, I think this is the kind of thing all of us would always would've wanted, right? We try to advance this pro-democracy coalition that's so essential for us to make sure that MAGA doesn't win.

Heidi Heitkamp (11:46):
If you had talked to a lot of us who follow politics probably two weeks ago, we would've been pretty discouraged about what was going to happen. The former president was the victim of an assassination attempt, which seemed to bolster his appeal, and then we saw a little bit of light, and you can comment on this with the acceptance speech, which I've never seen anything like it, but then the President Biden made his decision, which ignited all of this amazing grassroots enthusiasm that you just talked about. Talk about how you felt during this transition, and I don't think you can underestimate enthusiasm for the vice president, for Kamala.

Simon Rosenberg (12:34):
Yeah, let me try to do this quickly because I think you put a lot on the table, but let me try to go through it all. I think what's happened in the last few weeks, which was so unexpected and unanticipated, and one of the most dramatic sequence of events in modern American history was three things. First, I think that the pick of JD Vance cemented Trump as an extremist.

(12:57):
He chose the most extreme candidate, and for those people who were wondering maybe Trump wasn't so bad and he had softened a little bit, and I think it radicalized women in particular and stirred up the pot. And then Joe Biden made this heroic and historic decision to pass the torch to Kamala Harris, which I think was such a noble and selfless act that it also contributed mightily to this sense that there's gravity to this moment. People have to take all this very seriously.

(13:29):
It was a reaffirmation of our basic democratic principles in the United States. And then third is that I think the vice president met her moment. I mean, she was very strong and forceful from the very first moments, and I think all three of those things together created this moment that we're in. There wasn't any one of them. It was all three of them, I think.

(13:49):
The last three polls that have been released. She's actually leading in the election now by a point or two, not by a lot. It's still a very close election. I think we're on offense now, and I think it's really... We're playing to win here. We're not playing to catch up anymore. It feels very different to your point than where we were a few weeks ago, but I think it's really critical for all of your listeners is that when you've got a little bit of lead and you've got momentum is the time that you have to keep going and you have to push harder.

(14:14):
Actually, you got to go finish the job and play for the win, and it's like in a baseball game, if you're up by a little bit of the end, you got to keep going. You can't let up.

Heidi Heitkamp (14:22):
Let's talk a little bit about JD Vance. It seems to me that it was a decision made out of hubris. "I've won this, therefore I can pick this person that my kids told me to pick that the Silicon Valley Republicans told me to pick. He doesn't have the charisma, it seems to me to kind of spin himself out of the negativity surrounding his candidacy.

Simon Rosenberg (14:51):
Listen, there is evidence that this was the worst VP pick in modern American history. I mean, he's the first vice president to be in negative territory in polling in their first week. That's never happened before. I mean, he's doing far worse than Sarah Palin and Dan Quayle did in their first week of polling that pick was announced in NBC News where the campaign was clearly distancing themselves from the pick, and there was a leak that the decision had been made by Don Jr. and by Eric.

(15:20):
And it was a way of the campaign saying, "Hey, this wasn't what we wanted." I think we now know why, because they vetted him. They saw all these videos that we're now seeing because JD Vance spent a lot of time in the right wing sort of media ecosystem, and there's just an enormous amount of material about him, and it's shocking some of the stuff that he has said. Even though I went on Fox News for 17 years and I've gone on to conservative shows and so on, Vance is an extremist.

(15:51):
And I think to me, one of the things that really tipped it for me about Vance was there's this interview with him that came out right away where he's against no fault divorce. He believes that women should not have the ability to divorce their husbands even in abusive relationships where they're getting beaten by their husband. There's a video of him talking about how women need to stay in abusive relationships for the good of the children.

(16:16):
Honestly, I was shocked when I watched this. I mean, because it's just so... What century are we in? What year are we in? It's just so backward leaning. And I think that's one of the reasons why the vice president has also done a very good job at setting up the basic frame of this election is forward and backward, which is also not very political.

(16:35):
It's not a left right sort of frame. It's an inclusive frame. It means we want to go forward, they want to take us back. In this case, the Republicans really do want to take us back, right? It's really an accurate assessment. So I think Vance has done enormous harm to Trump's campaign, and I think that when we win, I think his pick was the beginning of the unraveling of Trump particularly because it came just two days after the assassination attempt. Trump was riding very high.

(17:02):
He could have had a pick that would've bolstered him with independent and moderate voters. Instead, he picked somebody that was offensive to many people and had said ugly things about other Americans.

Heidi Heitkamp (17:13):
So I want to transition to Kamala's campaign. It's new. She's obviously getting a big bounce from this heroic and noble decision that Biden made. Biden quickly endorsed her. She's received all the major party endorsement. I think that that has given her a smooth sailing and she's being propelled right now by optimism of the Democratic Party. But is it sugar high or will you see this wearing off some? And what advice would you give to her right now?

Simon Rosenberg (17:48):
I don't think it is a sugar high. I think the race has changed. And it doesn't mean it won't change again, but this isn't a bump. This isn't a temporary thing. I think there's been a structural change in the election. One of the central reasons I think Joe Biden was persuaded to step aside is that we were doing really well in all these Senate races. All of your former colleagues who are running across the country, the Congressional generic is still good for us.

(18:13):
The House, I did an interview with Hakeem Jeffries yesterday and they feel really good about winning the house. And so underneath Biden, we were doing really well. Consistent with how well we've been doing in elections across the country over the last several years where we've continued to outperform expectations in all parts of the country. And so I think that Biden really came to understand that it really was about him and that if he stepped aside the likely scenario, it would be that Kamala would start performing where the Senate candidates which is where the generic Democrat has been winning again and again, and again.

(18:49):
I mean, all these elections we've been winning across the country, it didn't matter if it was just a generic pragmatic Democrats versus extremists, and we would win that battle. Now, we have the vice president is now starting to show up in polling closer to where all the Senate candidates were, and that's a really big problem for the Republicans because in some of these races, even Fox's News's polling, if you looked at their polling on Sunday, we have very large advantages in the Senate races in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and Michigan in ways that should be terrifying to the Republicans.

(19:22):
Listen, I think that there are many things now that are true about Trump that were not true in 2020, right? He tried to overturn an American election and end American democracy for all time. He ended Roe v. Wade and stripped the rights and freedoms of way of more than half the population. He's been now found liable for sexual assault and fraud. I mean, there's a lot more negative stuff about Trump in this election than there was in 2020 in addition to everything else, which is that there was already this kind of downward drag on him that we were going to be able to use in the election because of things that had happened.

(19:59):
And now we know, and they've confirmed for us to see in Project 2025 that if he becomes president, he'll be executing an extremist agenda. We also know that the vice president... I'm really proud of her. I mean, the thing that I'm very focused on in her early language, and we knew she would be advocating for freedom. And the forward backward stuff, I think has been very elegant. But she has this very powerful, simple line about the economy that I think is really important. And it's the lead in her new ad she just launched, which is we don't want people just to get by, we want them to get ahead.

(20:36):
It's so simple. You know this as a former politician, right? These kind of simple phrases that you can repeat again and again, that really speak to something more powerful, she's made it very clear that her approach to the economy is about upward mobility, economic opportunity, people getting ahead in America because she comes from an immigrant experience, right? This is happening to her own family and her own life, and I think it's going to be very powerful for us because I think part of what happened to our party in 2020 during COVID was that the Republicans attack on us that we wanted to shut the economy down. We wanted to make it impossible for people to make a living because of COVID.

(21:15):
I think that has had residual negative downward push on us, and she's running as an optimist. She's running as someone who believes in the future. And so I'm really encouraged by her early positioning, and she was ready for this. However, this all happened. There are two things that Trump has made a priority, not just that's on a long list, but made a priority that will have a very big impact on rural communities, and there's more, but there's just two that I want to talk about.

(21:45):
One is his rounding up of immigrants and deporting long-settled immigrant families here, which will create the worst worker shortage in rural America that anyone has ever seen. There's already a worker shortage across the United States because of the strong economy. Imagine if you took away 50% of all the agricultural workers in the United States and 5% of our total workforce. The number one thing in the Republican platform, the very central thing was this mass deportation, which will hurt rural America worse than any other part of the country.

(22:20):
The second thing isn't about healthcare, that rural hospitals exist, people who have access to healthcare in rural America because of the Affordable Care Act. And if you take that away, it will also have a devastating impact on access to rural healthcare, access to hospitals. We had this year, the first year, we've had a decline in overdose deaths in the United States for the first time in a very long time.

(22:46):
That's happened because people have access to healthcare. We have the lowest uninsured rate ever in America. You can't solve the opioid addiction crisis without creating universal access to healthcare.

Heidi Heitkamp (22:57):
He is speaking to the constituency that was 2016. He had the largest focus groups. He did that call and response, lock her up, build the wall. I mean, he knew how to chant it up, but he hasn't changed his thinking or his message. Before I let you go, let's talk about the Kamala's VP pick. Do you have a preference?

Simon Rosenberg (23:22):
I think it's all good choices, and as you know, Heidi, there's one vote in this thing. It's her vote. And they're going to go through all the strategy in this state, in that state, and then blue wall versus the Sunbelt, and then she's going to meet them all, and she's going to decide, "This is the person I want to be in a foxhole with for the next nine years."

(23:42):
Everyone who's been mentioned... I think the quality of the VP picks this time are incredible, right? I still hope Gretchen Whitmer is on the list. I know it's unlikely to be two women, but I think she's such an amazing politician.

Heidi Heitkamp (23:55):
Can I just say something about that? No one ever says, "Oh, it's too bad, it's two men."

Simon Rosenberg (24:00):
I know. I agree with you. That's why I'm saying I'm keeping Gretchen Whitmer on my short list. I'm not giving up on her. I mean, she, last night, I watched a clip of her last night campaigning. She's just an amazing politician.

Heidi Heitkamp (24:15):
Arizona, where they've picked a horrific senate candidate in Kari Lake, everybody has kind of written it off, but let me tell you, I think Arizona is still doable for Kamala.

Simon Rosenberg (24:26):
Oh, totally is doable. I mean, the people on the ground in Arizona think that Harris is going to win. It's just the pollsters who don't know how to poll Hispanic voters. I mean, the problem is these states with very large Hispanic populations. If you aren't expert at polling Hispanics, bilingual polling... I've done a lot of work in the Hispanic community, as you remember. It is very, very hard to poll if you're just a general pollster to do a quick and dirty poll in places like Nevada and Arizona.

(24:56):
And it's one of the reasons you've seen such variance in the polling, right? I mean, today, there's a poll in Nevada that's minus nine. There was another one two days ago that was minus one for Harris, because Hispanics are hard to poll because of the language. In both of those states, there are large numbers of Spanish speakers who vote. And unless you have legitimate bilingual phone banks, it's very hard to poll those states well. Expensive, difficult, challenging.

(25:21):
And so be careful to not buy into the kind of sensibility. I mean, I talked to Ruben two days ago. He said, "Look, we're going to win here. We're going to win everything here." He's very optimistic about what's going to happen there.

Heidi Heitkamp (25:34):
Maybe in four weeks we can bring you back and you and I can have a conversation and talk about how... Man, we missed it last time we talked. Man, we weren't as optimistic as we should have been. The momentum is all on the vice president's side. And the fact that Donald Trump is licking his wounds and griping about money or whatever it is, tells you everything you need to know. Take care.

Simon Rosenberg (26:01):
Very good to see you again, Heidi. It's been great. It's been a long time. My wife sends her regards and take care. Thank you. Feel better.

Heidi Heitkamp (26:09):
You too. Well, Joel, just another calm, easy kind of month in American politics. Couldn't get any wilder. I think it's really pretty amazing because we always say, "Oh, this is the most unusual time ever." Let me tell you, I've been in politics for a long time, ran my first statewide race when I was 28 years old. This is probably the most unusual election cycle we've ever had.

Joel Heitkamp (26:48):
Yeah. Heidi, both of us would yield to our big brother who is the walking historian in the family, but you're going to have to help me with the name. Somebody once said, "I'm not a member of any organized party. I'm a Democrat." Who was that again?

Heidi Heitkamp (27:02):
That's Will Rogers. Will Rogers.

Joel Heitkamp (27:05):
That's what I thought. I just thought I'd give you the easy answers.

Heidi Heitkamp (27:06):
Oh, yeah?

Joel Heitkamp (27:08):
But I got to tell you, I think it's good. I think it's good for society. I think it's good for the Democratic Party. I think that people get to see how politics actually unfolds when people of like mind get together in the same room. I think it's good that we're pressuring each other to do the right thing, Heidi.

Heidi Heitkamp (27:28):
Yeah. What isn't good is that we are seeing this uptick in political violence and certainly extraordinarily grateful to the good Lord that the former president wasn't killed in that horrific attack. But I think we all expected something a little different. I did. I was writing his speech in my head about what I would say that would really, I think, cement him as the front-runner in this presidential election.

Joel Heitkamp (27:55):
Well, you're right. It isn't all good when somebody tries to take someone's life. I always wonder how many calls the Secret Service has that we're never, ever, ever going to know about. This was a circumstance where clearly the security was a failure. I think Secret Service showed when that curtain was pulled back that maybe they're not ready for everything they should be ready for. I know that you have a closer relationship with them than what I do, but I thought that what happened was inexcusable.

Heidi Heitkamp (28:27):
Well, not only that, but they knew he was there. I mean, so we'll wait for the investigation. We'll wait for the reports. But quite honestly, if I were the president, I might be asking the head of the Secret Service to step down. There needs to be a message that there's accountability within that organization, and I think it's probably not always fair to blame the person at the top, but let me tell you, the buck stops at the top, and she kind of said that in her remarks.

(28:54):
And you could say, "Well, we'll wait for an..." You don't need an investigation to know that something went terribly wrong with security. But let's talk a little bit, Joel, about his speech. I jokingly said... Remember he said after the assassination attempt, "I ripped the speech up." I said, "I think he went to the wastebasket and pulled it out and taped it back up," because after the moment of silence and the recognition that this was very serious, and his recounting of his experience being on the ground. After all of that, he just went right into Donald Trump "I'm not a changed man" mode. And I think it was for the Republicans a real missed opportunity.

Joel Heitkamp (29:37):
Well, he's that dairy cow. I mean, he's that dairy cow where the third stall is his. He knows what stall is his when he comes in. If you're in his stall, he's going to bite you in the butt. Here's the circumstance where I don't think he knows any better. He knows he plays to the crowd that's listening to him. Unfortunately, for him, it's a crowd that he already has and not a crowd he could have connected with as you pointed out. I think that Donald Trump missed a great opportunity. I do. I think that he missed an opportunity to really put the election away in so many ways.

Heidi Heitkamp (30:11):
Not only that, but someone said, "Well, what would you have advised him to do?" And I would've advised him to say, "Let's all calm down in America." And to the extent that I've been part of rhetoric that has driven the kinds of actions that we can't see, I regret that, and I'm not going to be part of that. To me, that would've been the one sentence that would've won him this election.

Joel Heitkamp (30:38):
But, Heidi, you're basing your comments off of hope. Donald Trump is who he is. He shows us each and every day who he is. He's vicious. I mean, he really is. That doesn't mean I think in any way, shape or form, the attempt on his life should be justified, or that isn't something that we as society just can't allow. But he's vicious. He says things about people. Paul Pelosi. Remember him joking about Paul Pelosi?

Heidi Heitkamp (31:06):
Yeah.

Joel Heitkamp (31:07):
He retweeted a tweet that showed Joe Biden hogtied and gagged on an end gate of a pickup. He joked about the attempt at the people trying to get to Governor Whitmer. I mean, it just goes on and on. The person sitting behind him on the night that he said he was going to try to bring America back together and to change the tone of his speech was Marjorie Taylor Greene. And she called for the execution of Barack Obama. So he shows us each and every day when he's saying, "You know what? We should shoot protesters in the legs."

(31:43):
I wasn't surprised. I wasn't. I think in the speech that Donald Trump gave at the convention, just simply because side by side, he hadn't gotten to where Joe Biden is yet. When you saw Donald Trump speak, you saw an old man. And the way he rambled on for 93 minutes and the way he circled and circled and couldn't hold a consistent thought made me believe he wasn't much different than Joe Biden.

Heidi Heitkamp (32:11):
The former president looked tired, and I don't know if that was just... You can't have something like that happen to you and not have a physical reaction as well as kind of an emotional reaction. And so he definitely was, as he would say, low energy. So now that Joe Biden has decided to leave, what do you think the chances are, Joel, for the Democrats to kind of reset this campaign?

Joel Heitkamp (32:38):
I look at it from a standpoint of taking a party that right now is stagnant and worried to a party that saw a terrible performance by Donald Trump and thinking they can win again and leaving a convention going, "Man, there was a lot of passion in that room." I think that's what's going to happen.

Heidi Heitkamp (32:58):
I mean, I think people would say, "Well, it is just one..." Well, this was a pretty important speech for Trump and just as what drove Democrats to be incredibly concerned about Biden, it wasn't just one bad debate performance. When's the next one happening? And I think that's one of the reasons why the speech plays into some political calculus. It definitely ignites interest and excitement. Whether the chaos and the controversy is going to eclipse that, I don't know. But let me tell you, I've been around politics a long time, Joel. Joe Biden had he stayed in, was not going to win.

(33:41):
And the question became, and that's why you saw the former speaker stepping in. She's trying to protect her people. She's trying to protect the House Democratic members that she has recruited, that she has fought for, that she considers her friends. She is there speaking for them. And there's been nobody in North Dakota who's been a bigger fan of Nancy Pelosi than Joel Heitkamp. Seriously, I mean, I like her a lot, but I don't like her as much as Joel likes her.

(34:13):
You had to be smiling watching her take that level of leadership to the boys once again, showing that if there is a pair of, you know what, in America, she's the one. She's the one who's got them.

Joel Heitkamp (34:27):
Yep. I always describe her to people as the person I would give my car keys to in a tough bar, because when the fighting started, she wouldn't go run.

Heidi Heitkamp (34:37):
And this was a tough deal for people. But I want to make this point too, Joel, because people may say, "Oh, why didn't they do it earlier?" Number one, they're waiting to find out how bad it was going to be in terms of the numbers. But number two, they were hoping that private nudges, that real quiet kind of discussions would lead to a result.

Joel Heitkamp (34:58):
I'll accept any candidate that comes out of that convention because I think any candidate that comes out of that convention is a candidate that can win. And so whoever that next candidate is, don't be surprised. All you folks that are loyal to us at One Country, don't be surprised if Donald Trump doesn't agree to debate again. It will not shock me.

Heidi Heitkamp (35:23):
I think this has been a really fantastic episode, and I hope you do too. Let us know what you think and ask any questions or give us your suggestions. You can do that by emailing us at podcast@onecountryproject.org.

Joel Heitkamp (35:38):
Thank you for joining us today on the Hot Dish, which is brought to you by the One Country Project, making sure the voices of the rest of us are heard in Washington DC. Learn more at onecountryproject.org.

Heidi Heitkamp (35:51):
We'll be back in two weeks with more Hot Dish Comfort Food for Middle America.