One Country Project's Hot Dish

Heidi Heitkamp [00:00:04]:
Welcome to the Hot Dish, comfort food for rural America. I'm Heidi Heitkamp and Joel is AWOL. Not sure what he's doing. Maybe planting his pumpkin patch, maybe sitting out there with a lawn chair and a beer, watching it grow. I have no idea. But I'm on my own this week. We're joined today by some amazing guests for an episode analyzing anything that's going on in the world of rural. Later, I'll be speaking with the amazing Jess Piper about breaking Republican supermajorities in red states like Missouri and North Dakota. You'll also hear a fantastic conversation between our producer Richard Fawal and the independent journalist Bryce Oates, who writes for Barn Raiser and on Substack about rural America's desire for information and where we can all find hope. But first, let's listen to Isaac Nehring. He, he is a promising young man who is the 2025 Montana recipient of the Truman Scholarship. I am well familiar with that program, having given many speeches and being inspired by all these young people who want to commit their life to public service. Isaac is using his scholarship to help rural communities in his home state of Montana and nationwide. Let's hear from him in his own words.

Isaac Nehring [00:01:26]:
I'm Isaac Nehring. I grew up in Helena, Montana and I'm now a student at Stanford University. I spent all the first 18 years of my life in Helena and grew up in sort of the western Montana area, spending a lot of time outside and doing various activities with my family. I think what led me to Stanford from there was, you know, I was lucky to get in, and then I really wanted to stay in the West and be able to focus on issues in this part of the country. And so, so that's how I ended up down in California. I worked for Senator Tester Winter to Spring of my sophomore year of college and I got a great view of his view of advocating for rural issues and advocating for Montana. And that small town connection to all the work the Senator was doing was really cool and important to me being in his office. So he was a really great advocate for Montana and rural issues at large in this country. And I think losing him is really significant and really challenging for those of us who appreciated a moderating voice and a laser focused voice on local issues, not the nationalization stuff we see now. And so some of the big controversies from my political view out of D.C. right now are these efforts to sell off public lands, these efforts to turn, I think, too much of our public land into, you know, places for drilling and, and extracting, as opposed to other values like recreation tourism, like agriculture, and, you know, just the softer values of what public lands give us. They feed our souls in a lot of places in rural America. I've come to advocate for rural conservation issues just by realizing how important the land is to me and how, how critical it has been in shaping who I am through just exposure to it, being outside, camping, hiking, fishing, skiing even, like all these things that rely on public lands in my experience. And I also, when I think of conservation, it is an inherently rural topic to me because the people who are close to the land, which in Western states is vastly owned by the federal government, are those who live in rural communities and, and farm or work for the agencies or just interact with the land. Rural development has been sort of a budding and recent passion of mine and it stems not from really focusing on it in my own professional experience, but having just observed it in communities that are really important to me, that I grew up in. I think my main foray into rural development per se is trying to lead where I'm at here at Stanford and advocate for awareness on that issue, for the most part, because Stanford itself, it's about 3% rural students, which is quite low. The country's, I don't know, almost seven times that I'd say, and so not very well represented here. But I'm supposedly in this breeding ground for future world leaders and private and public and everything. And so it was really important to me pretty much the minute I got here and had this realization that there were not a lot of folks from states like mine, "flyover country," "heartland," whatever you want to call it. And so it's really been a mission of mine to make people care about it here at Stanford as students, when I feel like we're open-minded as college students and bring speakers to campus and other leaders who can really distill their passion and years of experience, which I don't have yet, to get people interested in investing in rural communities and visiting and just considering them politically. I was recently awarded the Truman scholarship and the 2025 Scholar for the State of Montana. And this is the living memorial to President Truman. He wanted to give the gift of education to future public service leaders, in his words. And so every year at least one scholar from every single state and a couple of the territories is awarded a $30,000 grant for graduate education. And that's a big deal. But I think what's more awesome and important with this scholarship is the network of people in public service from all over the country that I might not already be crossing paths with. And so, I mean, it was drilled into our heads by the Foundation that once you're a Truman Scholar, you're always a Truman Scholar. And so there's this great 50 year long sort of network of folks who've received this award who can serve as mentors in all sorts of spaces, from things like ag and conservation that I'm interested in to a lot of folks in healthcare and public health, to folks in the legal profession, but all over. And so it's a big honor to get to represent Montana, especially to receive this award.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:06:36]:
We're so proud of Isaac and we wish him absolutely the best of luck and we will check in occasionally with how he's doing. Now here is Richard and Bryce Oates. Bryce is such an interesting guy. You're going to love this.

Richard Fawal [00:06:49]:
I'm Richard Fawal. I'm a producer here at the Hot Dish. And today I am thrilled to be speaking with Bryce Oates who writes the Cocklebur on Substack. You can find that at thecocklebur.substack.com and by the way, be sure to check out the One Country Project on substack at onecountryproject.substack.com. Bryce is also a contributing editor at Barn Raiser, which is a twice weekly newsletter that delivers independent reporting from rural and small town America. Bryce, thank you for joining the Hot Dish.

Bryce Oates [00:07:18]:
It's good to be here. It's good to be here.

Richard Fawal [00:07:21]:
Let's start by telling people a little bit about who you are, where you come from. You cover all these rural issues. You write about rural communities and the issues affecting rural communities and the politics and the policies. But did you grow up rural? Did you come to rural later in life? Tell us about yourself.

Bryce Oates [00:07:36]:
I grew up country, man. Country. I grew up in a butcher shop and on a farm. So that's where I come from. West Missouri country people. I'm actually the first person in my family who ever graduated from college. My older brother went before me, but I graduated before him. But we, we had a butcher shop growing up, you know, Meat Locker we called it. It was awesome. We had a farm too. I mean ever- everybody farmed. I don't know, is it, it was just sort of like what you did in West Missouri. You know, on the one side of my family, farming people. On the other side of my family, people who did construction work. So it's just working class country people.

Richard Fawal [00:08:23]:
You don't live there now. You're not, you don't live in Missouri anymore. So how long did you live there and where did you go and, like, what were your travels to get you where you are today?

Bryce Oates [00:08:30]:
I went to college and then I stayed in Columbia, Missouri, which is a cool college town. Lived around there for a while, got married to a city girl, had kids, and then moved back home and, and did the farming thing. Like, we did the homesteading thing. We built a house, raised organic vegetables. I mean, we did all that stuff and then moved to the Pacific Northwest after. So that. That's what we did.

Richard Fawal [00:09:00]:
Did, did you study writing in college? Was that what you, what you did? Were you a journalist or did you come into that later?

Bryce Oates [00:09:06]:
I was not a, a "journalist" journalist, but I was in the English program and I took every writing class you could take in terms of, I was more of a fiction and prose sort of person rather than...At the University of Missouri, it's a big journalism school, as you probably know. But I didn't go through that professional thing.

Richard Fawal [00:09:29]:
What got you into writing about politics and rural issues specifically?

Bryce Oates [00:09:34]:
I'm an activist, frankly, so it's like, I'm really into the politics of peace and the politics of local democracy. Right? And so I've always been the writer for, like, every group I've ever been involved with, which is all kinds of groups. So where I come from is rural people, working class, small towns. And I find that the politics doesn't make all the sense for them. It doesn't make sense for the people. Right? Like, they don't understand how they're getting screwed over. They don't understand who's in charge or they don't understand how it all goes. And so luckily, I have been able to get educated and also activated to connect with some of those people, right, who are in charge of their, of the decisions that, that matter in their lives. And so that's why I write about it. That's why I write about it. The politics is what matters to me because I can kind of see the connections between who's making the decisions and who isn't.

Richard Fawal [00:10:47]:
Now let's get into that. Let's talk about what's, what's going on, what you're seeing and what you're writing about. So tell us what you're seeing about the, about who's making the decisions that impact rural America and what do those decisions mean for rural folk?

Bryce Oates [00:11:02]:
Well, I guess. Where do you start? Right?

Richard Fawal [00:11:06]:
There's a lot, right.

Bryce Oates [00:11:07]:
Right now I'm really pissed off about, I'm gonna just say, like, I'm fucking pissed about what's happening in with the budget. I mean, it's just, it's, you're gonna get like hundreds of thousands of people kicked off of Medicaid, my kids included, who are on Medicaid. You're gonna get hundreds of thousands of people losing their SNAP, nutrition benefits, food stamps, whatever you call, whatever you want to call it. And I just, I, like, I'm, my mind is, is boggled, for tax cuts for billionaires. And I just don't understand how - no one wants rich kids to get tax cuts to pay for poor kids to get kicked off of SNAP and Medicaid. And that's what's happening. That's what's happening. Like, it's very direct and it's, it's, it's just maddening. It's just maddening.

Richard Fawal [00:12:03]:
Aside from the work that you're doing, obviously, the writing you're doing, you know, the writing coming from Barn Raiser, the stuff that we're doing here at the One Country Project, like, how else can we get the right information to rural folks about what's going on?

Bryce Oates [00:12:18]:
I mean, I think we have to get more direct to rural people. Democrats are horribly unpopular, but our issues are 100% popular. I guess I'm, you know, like, I'm not a Democratic insider. Don't get me wrong. That's not, that's not my thing.

Richard Fawal [00:12:35]:
Right.

Bryce Oates [00:12:36]:
But I just, I can't believe that we can't get to more people. You know, it's like, how do you, how do you get to them? Well, where I grew up, we used to have a small town newspaper and we don't have one anymore, you know, and all the towns in my like, home county are like that nowadays too. So it's like, how do you, how do you end up getting to people? I don't know. I don't know.

Richard Fawal [00:13:05]:
Do you have any thoughts about, and I'm not talking about the politics of this, so I'll be really clear. I'm not talking about what could Democrats do to reach rural voters. I'm talking about what can those of us who are producing content about an important to rural. What can we do? How do you think we could get to your folks and your, you know, your community that you grew up in? And it could be anything. Like, I just want to be creative, right? Is it billboards, is it planes flying around pulling, pulling things behind? What do you think we could do?

Bryce Oates [00:13:35]:
I honestly think if we produced a newspaper and we sent it to these people, that would be better. I know that's so costly. And I know that, like, that's so old school. But if we produced a newsletter, like a print newsletter. I'm talking print. I'm serious.

Richard Fawal [00:13:54]:
Oh, yeah.

Bryce Oates [00:13:55]:
And we sent it to people in the country, that would be the most beneficial thing we could do. And I don't mean like a mailer where it's just like, you know, politics, politics, politics.

Richard Fawal [00:14:06]:
Yeah.

Richard Fawal [00:14:06]:
Not junk mail.

Bryce Oates [00:14:07]:
Yeah, it's not junk mail exactly. I just mean like an actual news paper, that they would read it. They do read it. They do. I know my grandma's still alive. Like my parents, my grandma. Like, they read it, but they don't read email. You know, they don't read. And these are country people. Again, I'm not sure why you would do that other than for politics, connection, all the things. But they do read it. They do read it.

Richard Fawal [00:14:39]:
Let me ask this. If we could do that. And that's, I'm not saying you could do that or I could do that or One Country Project could do that, but just, just playing this out. If we could do that, how much of what we put in those newspapers would have to be explaining to people that what they're hearing from the other media that they're probably consuming and what they're hearing from the Republican politicians is bullshit.

Bryce Oates [00:15:07]:
I don't even think you'd have to address that. I just think they would read it. They want rural content. They want to know what's happening in their government. They do. These are people who want to know. They're very active politically. They're very, like, curious people generally.

Richard Fawal [00:15:23]:
So you think, you think that we wouldn't even have to address the whole misinformation and we just have to tell them the truth and just.

Bryce Oates [00:15:32]:
Yeah, just tell people the truth. That's it.

Bryce Oates [00:15:34]:
That's all.

Bryce Oates [00:15:35]:
Yes, I absolutely believe that. Have you ever been to a rural community? People, they just want the truth. They want clean water, they want clean air. They want local democracy to work. You know, these are not conspiracy theory people. They're just people, and they just want their government to work for them, you know?

Richard Fawal [00:16:01]:
Yeah, I understand where you're coming from, and particularly the, he argument you're making about, you know, they're just people. I - not to inject myself into the conversation too much - but I live in East Tennessee, near the Smoky Mountains, moved here about two years ago from the Washington, D.C. area and have been involved in sort of politics and political policy communication for, for a long, long time. And now that I know people who live in these rural communities and I talk to them all the time. I get really offended when people I know from the city are like, well, they're the reason Trump won, and they're the reasons, and, and, and just talk down about people, rural folks and people in the country. It's like that they're actually all really, really good people. They just don't know what you know, and there's no effort being placed into, into helping them know. We just turn up our noses at them. I mean, Bryce is throwing up his hands.

Bryce Oates [00:16:58]:
Everybody, honestly, like, this whole blame the country people for getting Trump elected is, you know, rural people voted more for Trump. I know that. That's, you know, they have since 2016, 2020. I get it. I get it. But, man, to blame rural people for Trump, it just doesn't make any sense. I mean, there's, there's more of a trend, I know, but what do you, like, who do we blame? Do we, do we say, oh, well, you know, now Latino and Hispanic folk are blame, you know, a little bit more for Trump. Like, do, Black men are a little bit more for Trump. And that says more about Democrats to me than it does, like, I'm obviously not for Trump. I can't stand him. I find him offensive. I'm like, he's a sexist, racist prick. But he's a city boy from New York. Like, that's all you got to say to me, and I'm out. I just, I can't believe that's where we're at, you know?

Richard Fawal [00:18:06]:
And I point out to those folks all the time that, that Trump didn't win because rural folks voted for him. Trump won because suburban folks and urban folks voted for him.

Bryce Oates [00:18:14]:
Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Richard Fawal [00:18:16]:
All right, I got one more question for you. This may be hard for you to answer. I've asked you a lot of tough questions today, but what, if anything, gives you hope?

Bryce Oates [00:18:26]:
Well, I got hope in young people. I got two sons myself. And they're just cool, you know, they're like, and their friends are cool. They care about climate change. They care about democracy. I just find hope in the kids, man. I mean, I'm not, I'm not even 50, so I'm not that old, you know, but, like, I love this generation of kids coming up. I think they're good. I just feel like they believe in democracy. They're active, you know.

Richard Fawal [00:18:57]:
All right, Bryce Oates, thank you very much for joining us on the Hot Dish. Appreciate your having you here.

Bryce Oates [00:19:03]:
Yep. Glad to be here. Glad to be here.

Richard Fawal [00:19:05]:
Once again, folks, you can find Bryce Oates on substack at the Cocklebur, thecocklebur.substack.com and you should also definitely check out Barn Raiser, which is a twice weekly newsletter focusing on rural issues and rural folks. And you can find that at barnraisermedia.com.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:19:28]:
Hey, I am so happy to be here with Jess Piper, someone that I guess we've been doing this back and forth for about two, three years now. But she's returning to the Hot Dish to talk with me and not Joel. I'm a lot nicer than Joel, Jess, you'll just know that. She travels the country speaking at town halls about what it's like to live in in a ruby Red state when you're a rural Democrat. I'm familiar with that. And she writes about that and other topics in her substack, the View from Rural Missouri. But she doesn't just speak and write. She puts her money where her mouth is. She's also the Executive Director for Blue Missouri, where she leads efforts to raise money to support Democrats running for the state legislature in Missouri. Jess, welcome back to the Hot Dish.

Jess Piper [00:20:16]:
Hi Heidi. It's so nice to be back. We have so much in common and I love talking to you and your audience.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:20:24]:
I wanted to start out by just kind of there's an old, old baseball saying, you know, we coach so good and they play so bad.

Jess Piper [00:20:32]:
Yeah, I know a lot about that. You know what, I was a coach for a while. I'm married to a football coach. I totally get it. Exactly.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:20:40]:
You know, we've been out there talking about the challenges that we experience in rural America and reputational damage that's been done to the Democratic Party because number one, in your case and your work, we don't run candidates who actually talk about what the differences are. But also we haven't been as aggressive in pushing back for the branding and the labels. And that contagion is now just not a rural American contagion with the Democratic brand, but you're seeing that brand problem everywhere.

Jess Piper [00:21:13]:
You really are. I mean, we've talked about this for years. If we can't stop the red that's happening in my state and states like mine, it's going to spread into the entire country just like a contagion. And by golly, it did, right? This has been real problematic because we have been not running candidates in spaces. I would knock doors in '22 when I was running and people would say they have never had a candidate knock their door. They didn't know the Democratic message. They would look at me and be so confused, you know, because I don't have horns. I don't look like what Fox News or OAN or Newsmax said I should look like. But the real problem is we don't have candidates in areas. So when people say, you know, you get what you vote for, I got nobody to vote for a friend. And this has been a problem, and it's still a problem in 2025.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:22:01]:
So I have a question. Obviously you've been following and I've been following the Big Beautiful Bill, which by the way, the same initials as Build Back Better. I mean, it's been confus for me. Every time I see BBB, I think where they're back to Joe Biden's Build Back Better. No, it's called the Big Beautiful Bill, if you can imagine that. That's how we're legislating now, by slogan. But what's been interesting to me is how aggressive Josh Hawley has been, the Senator from your state, has been in talking about Medicaid. Does that surprise you at all, Jess?

Jess Piper [00:22:36]:
No. And we should all know that he's not doing it for the benefit of people who need Medicaid. So in Missouri, our lawmakers would not pass Medicaid expansion. And so we forced their hand by putting it on the ballot as a Constitutional Amendment. So now they are forced to fund Medicaid expansion through our Constitutional Amendment. We also have something called the Hancock Amendment, which means that lawmakers cannot raise taxes in Missouri unless they put it in front of the voters and unless we vote for it. So this is what's happening. Josh Hawley knows his really wealthy people are about to be in a bind in Missouri because they're not going to get the tax cut, cuts they've been asking for. They're not going to get rid of the estate tax, which they have been asking for, because there won't be enough money to fund Medicaid expansion if those federal dollars don't come through. So to act, everybody has been like, oh my God, he's a changed man. He's a great person. No friends, no friends. He is not. He is still protecting the wealthiest.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:23:35]:
That is such an interesting perspective, Jess. I've been like watching this going and the inside story is always interesting. But it goes back to why we need people like you in states like Missouri to tell the truth. Because we see this at a national state and we think he's a changed man. He's out there, you know, fighting for the little guy. And, you know, that's not exactly it, is it?

Jess Piper [00:23:59]:
What you see with Josh Hawley is often not at all what you get. Because that man, I mean, we know, we all saw him put his fist up, you know, for the mob and then run away in the Capitol. Josh is for Josh. Josh is for the wealthy folks. He's not going to fight for us. He showed up in Wentzville during the campaign because we see him every six years, right? He finds, he finds a plaid shirt and a pair of boots, and he hits the circuit and goes to all the county fairs and state fairs and all that. But we saw him in a picket line in Wentzville, Missouri, for UAW. And I'm telling you, those people were so confused because Josh Hawley is pro Right to Work. He was for years. And now recently, he's decided that, you know, maybe he needs to back off of that. But Josh is who he's always been. Don't ever, don't ever think, oh, my gosh, he's changed his mind. He's a great guy because he's always fighting for the same people and it ain't us.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:24:56]:
Yeah. And the, the reality is that if he wants to be labeled a populist and not an elitist, these are some good issues. He's taking a page out of Donald Trump's book. But I want to pivot to the Big Beautiful Bill and whether you see an opening for rebranding the Democratic Party or at least having a conversation with people about difference in values that are being reflected by that Bill versus the Democratic agenda. Are you seeing that in Missouri much?

Jess Piper [00:25:26]:
I am. Even Republicans and our Republican lawmakers are realizing what's going to happen to our state when they cut funding for SNAP, when they cut funding, funding for Medicaid, when they go after Social Security. Because all of these are, you know, social safety nets. But in places like Missouri, 40% of our kids are born on Medicaid. We're supposed to be a Pro Life state. And now we're cutting the benefit that poor folks had to deliver the babies that our state is demanding. They're going to cut that. They're going to cut SNAP. They're going to try to put in Medicaid work requirements, which we know don't work. You can look at Arkansas. Sarah Huckabee Sanders tried to do this. They found out real quick that most of the people on Medicaid were already working. And the fact is, these people are working for places like Walmart, who's not paying a living wage, who gets government subsidies themselves, and then most of their employees end up needing SNAP, Medicaid and other social services because they're not paying them a living wage. So this is the part where Democrats can step in and say, Big Beautiful Bill, like you said, that is an outrageous, outrageous name. It's so Trumpion and it sounds so, so weird, but almost every person who has even a limited understanding of it understands that it's coming after the most marginalized in our communities.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:26:43]:
Yeah. And the one thing that I want to put on the table, because we've been talking about this Big Beautiful Bill and the changes that it's going to make to the Medicaid system, but the expanded credits for the ACA, which a lot of states, including mine and yours, we have a lot of people who have greatly reduced their premium costs. Those expanded credits are going to go off even if they're out on the exchange buying health insurance. Because by the way, employers, not every employer offers health insurance. That, I saw a Senator recently who said, oh, you know, they'll just get it from their employer when they go back to work. I want to say, what don't you people understand about the struggles are of people that you think, you think are slackers? I was on Joel's radio show, Jess, and a guy called in and said, you Democrats, you just want to give away money to, you know, on daycare and on, you know, food assistance. And he went through all these, Section 8 housing. And so he went through all these programs. And I said, let me tell you a story, a story about somebody who works at a fast food restaurant who makes $10 an hour. Guess what they make. They make under $25,000 a year. So who are you really subsidizing when you offer those benefits? You're subsidizing the employer. You're not subsidizing that person. That person's working 40 hours a week. And it's this failure of people to understand because they only show up every six years and ask for a vote and say, I'm a Republican, be scared of Democrats, and don't have any ideas and don't improve the lives of the people they serve.

Jess Piper [00:28:18]:
That's exactly it. And when I was knocking doors, I would have people come to the door and talk about their road. We don't have shoulders on our roads. Our schools are four days a week, our hospitals are closing. And they would come out and say, well, Joe Biden. I don't know who you're talking about. He has no idea where you live. That has come from your State Representative and your State Senator and you have voted for Republicans for 30 years we have not elected a Democrat from my district in 32 years, never elected a woman. So all of these problems, by the way, friends, are coming from your State House and the federal funds we're going to lose are coming from those Republicans up in the Federal Government. And you are so right to talk about what is happening with ACA. I'm self-employed and before Missouri expanded Medicaid, I didn't have health insurance because it was around $1100 a month and I just could not afford it. Well, a year and a half ago I went and I was like, I really am going to need health insurance. I'm nearing 50, right? And I look at the marketplace and now it's $496, $496! I didn't know what happened. Now I do. It's because Missouri expanded Medicaid and that brought down, you know, the co-pays and all that for my health insurance. I, you know, I'm not someone that people would look at and say, well, Medicaid has benefited you. Medicaid expansion has benefited every single person in this state, whether they know it or not.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:29:34]:
Well, and the other thing is it's kept our rural hospitals open, which are heavily dependent, operate on a 1% margin and are heavily dependent on Medicaid and Medicare expenditures. And think about this, when we have uncompensated care, who's going to pay? Eventually everybody pays because you're going to get care and it's going to be even more expensive. And yes, Joni Ernst, people will die. You know, my husband's a family physician and he will tell anyone after the passage of the aca, when people came in and were able to get screenings for free, it saved people's lives. He was able to early detect a lot of diseases, particularly colon cancers, that had it gone unchecked, those people would have been on the short list for meeting their maker. And so it's just naive. I mean this whole healthcare thing is just absolutely naive. And the point that we need to make, I think over and over again is that there are struggles out there that we need to understand better. But as Democrats, we need to talk about what our plan is, not just why their plan is bad, we do.

Jess Piper [00:30:43]:
And we also need to catch the people who are trying to get fly under the radar. My Congressman, for example, has been in D.C. for 24 years. Sam Graves, he's a Congressman for the 6th district, which is the entire third part of Missouri. He voted for the big beautiful bill. He voted to take away Medicaid and he just came out yesterday with a bipartisan bill to save rural hospitals. And I'm like, wait, Sam, you just voted to defund those hospitals, and now you're writing a bill to fund these hospitals? So everything is smoke and mirrors, everything they do. So he's going to come out and he has, you know, he's, he's going to try to get reelected next year, and he's going to come out and say, look, I tried to save these rural hospitals. No, you didn't. You voted against them. You created a problem. And now you're, you're coming out with this bill to say that you're saving them. And the reason it's happening is because under 22 years of the GOP super majority in this state, they have closed 19 rural hospitals. You have to drive an hour and a half to deliver a baby that you wanted. You're forced to deliver a pregnancy that you didn't want because, by the way, we got rid of our abortion ban. And Heidi, what did they do?

Jess Piper [00:31:52]:
They.

Jess Piper [00:31:53]:
They negated our vote. They're putting it back on the ballot again. We raised 380,000 signatures, and we won. And they're still saying it doesn't matter because, remember, all of this was supposed to be about States' rights. "Send it back to the States." But not like that, not when they approve it, right? And so these are all problems with Republicans. And right now, as far as, as a Democrat, when I'm knocking doors, I don't even really have time to give them a Democratic message. I have to unwind everything they've heard from all of these sources that are incorrect about Republicans.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:32:25]:
So how do we fix this? I mean, you know, you and I, I'm not afraid to go anywhere and mix it up with anyone in North Dakota because I think I have a story to tell, and I'm not going to fall into the traps of, 'You Democrats are all this.' No, we're not. We're not all this. We are different people. But we have a fundamental belief that when you invest in people, and not just institutions and wealthy people, that when you invest in everyone and give everyone a chance, that's when we succeed. But let's turn to the, the damage that's been done to the Democratic brand in rural America. And how do we fix that, Jess?

Jess Piper [00:33:02]:
We fix it by being here. We have left rural America, and that is the fault of the Democrats. I think years ago, they decided that they could win elections by just paying attention to suburban and urban areas. And they thought "those people," the rural spaces are so red anyway, it doesn't matter. But look what has happened. We have also given to, only to races that we have decided are flippable or winnable instead of investing in every single district across every single state. And look what has happened in Missouri. We have only invested in those winnable races. And now we do not have one Democrat elected statewide. Not one. And we haven't since 2018 when the last auditor left. So we have this huge vacuum of leadership of being in the space. You can't win a rural space when you just have people from other areas come in and knock two weeks before an election. You can't say, I care about you, but I've never been here for you. You can't say I care about you, but I'm not going to. I'm not going to have anyone on the ballot for you to vote for, because people see through that real quick. We have to actually be in the communities the Democratic Party needs to support the people who have been on the ground for decades doing the work that send them funding, send them money so that they can do even more. And that's how we'll start to claw our way back.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:34:17]:
I'm not picking on the presidential race, but you think about the billions of dollars that was spent, and you think about the polling before that money was ever spent. It didn't change any votes because it was done the wrong way. And, you know, God bless, you know, everyone who worked so hard on that race. But just, just think of what $100 million invested in rural places would mean for, number one, telling people who have been in the fight for a long, long time in rural Nebraska and rural North Dakota and rural Minnesota, telling them, guess what? You matter. And we're going to help you build the infrastructure that you need and develop the candidates that you need. And I think that's the other thing I want to turn to, which is candidate development. You know, if, if you know that you don't have any support, you're just out there like you were. Like you were, Jess, when you were knocking doors.

Jess Piper [00:35:12]:
It really does. That's why I run Blue Missouri. That's why I, I run an organization where we give money. A lot of people say, do you endorse candidates? No, I don't. I send them a check once they have won the nomination for their district or whatever they're running for. We send them actual cash. We do a bathtub method from the bottom to the top. So the people who have raised the least are, get the most from Blue Missouri. And that's why it's hard for people, because it's flipped it on its head. They're like, yeah, but these folks aren't going to win. I know they're not likely to win, but you know what? We've got their back. Asking someone in a rural space to run is very, it's a huge ask. I know I lost my job. I can't go back to teaching because I said abortion, because I said that gay people should be able to be married, because I said education should be free for folks. And so I can't go back to teaching. My husband was fired from his teaching job because I ran for office. You are asking so much of people, so to ask them to run and then not give them a dime, that's immoral. That, that - we can't do that anymore. We can't say, turn your life upside down and by the way, we're not going to do anything else for you. And that's why I felt called to do this, to give to the people that are running in the Reddest, the toughest districts that no one else is going to support. Because you know as well as I do, Heidi, it's going to take a few cycles. If, if we haven't had a candidate since 2012, we've taught an entire generation of people to vote for Republicans because there's not a Democrat on the ballot. And we've got to do better than that. And we start by making sure there is a candidate in every single area and then funding those candidates.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:36:50]:
Yeah. And training candidates and telling them, look, you know, here's, here's the best way to approach what you're doing. If you're uncomfortable defending this position. I, I tell the, you know, I ran, no one thought I was going to win, kind of similar situation. And you, you just never know what's going to happen. And you just don't know. Lightning could strike, right?

Jess Piper [00:37:11]:
It could strike when people have someone to talk to. And that's why candidates on every ballot are important, because they're out knocking the doors. And, you know, we have a lot of messaging coming through, and St. Louis messaging doesn't work in Maryville, Missouri. And so people have to figure that out as well, too. But by knocking doors, you figure out what's important to people. You know, what's important to people out here. The schools, the roads, the hospitals. Not one person did I knock a door and then come out and say, well, those Trans people using bathrooms - never, not once! So we have to remember too, that there are issues that, these "Kitchen Table" issues. Even though Fox News and OAN and all them want to make them the biggest part. When I knock doors, it has nothing to do with that. Nobody said, I don't think gay people should be able to be married. Nobody said, I hope that my tax money goes to a private religious school that I can't send my kid to. Right? These are things that keep going through the Missouri House. But no one, no door I knocked had anything to do with that. So there's this huge disconnect. But a reason that a lot of people will still vote for a Republican, you know this as well as I do, is church indoctrination. Because they're hearing from the pulpit that they can't vote for Democrats, that they can't vote for people who are Pro Choice. And we work on that message by knocking doors and actually talking to people.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:38:28]:
The one thing that I will say, Jess, is I have a friend who says Democrats approach rural people as missionaries and not neighbors. Meaning, you know, they knock a door and say, I'm here to help you. Look what I'm going to give you. You know what? You need to see people first. You need to say, I see your hard work. I see your struggle. I see that you don't have enough money to fix the hot water heater or to fix the plumbing in your house. How can we make that better? How can we help? And not how can I give you something? Because they don't want to be given anything. They've earned it. And the question is, how can you make their life better?

Jess Piper [00:39:07]:
And that's exactly why deep canvassing works. That's why I was at doors for an hour, because I was listening to what was going on with these folks and how hard it is to live in rural spaces. Listen, if anybody wants to know what the Trump Administration and what Elon Musk - even though they're fighting right now - what they want for the rest of country, all you got to do is look at rural America. They want it hollowed out. And by the way, urban issues and rural issues are almost identical. We have the same exact struggle, struggle. And that's why places like, you know, RUBI, the Rural Urban Bridge Initiative is helpful, but also in getting a message out. We're suffering from the same things. It just looks different. But the poverty is the same. The no schools, the no daycares, the no hospitals, all of these things are very similar.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:39:54]:
And the bottom line is that when you approach this as we're so different, you're going to lose when you approach this. That if I hear one more Democrat say they vote against their interests. I say, no, they don't. They don't vote against their interests. Nobody votes against their interests. But Jess, it is always great to talk to you. It's kind of like, "Yeah!" And then, "Yeah, that's exactly right!"

Jess Piper [00:40:18]:
Yes, yes, yes. We're both cheerleaders. We're both cheerleaders for the same exact community. And if folks would just listen and Heidi, you hit on something that's so important. No one votes against their self interest. When I knock doors and someone say abortion makes the entire thing for me, it's because they honestly and truly believe that people are killing babies, right? And so that's where we have to do this education and unwinding and nothing happens if there aren't Democrats out knocking doors and talking to people. Rural people are worth it. We are worth candidates. We are worth conversations. And if the Democrats would just come back, we would see a change.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:40:54]:
Amen. Amen. Jess, thanks so much for joining me. I just want everyone to know you can follow Jess on Substack at jesspiper. All one word. P-I-P-E-R. And good luck with your Substack. Good luck with your preaching. The bottom line is that if you're not out there, of course you're going to fail.

Jess Piper [00:41:13]:
Exactly. I appreciate you and thank you for doing all you're doing for rural communities across the country.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:41:19]:
Love you, Jess. Thanks so much.

Jess Piper [00:41:21]:
Thank you. Bye.

Heidi Heitkamp [00:41:25]:
I learned a lot in today's episode and I hope you did too. It's so important to support our rural communities. We hope this episode inspires you to get involved in your community. If there's something you or a loved one is doing, let's talk about it. Email us your story or anything else that you have to say at podcast@onecountryproject.org. That's podcast@onecountryproject - all one word - dot org. We're also on Bluesky and Substack, so follow us and reach out there too. We'd love to hear from you because we are optimistic about what can happen in the next cycle. Hot Dish is brought to you by One Country Project, making sure the voices of the rest of us are heard in the Washington. Learn more at onecountryproject.org. And be sure to register for the Rural Progress Summit, our online event, which will be held July 8th through the 10th. We'll be back in two weeks with more Hot Dish, comfort food for rural America.